Transcript: Facilitabile, on playful facilitation and emotional culture

00:02 Here we go. Good morning, good afternoon. I don't know with the podcast it's all with streaking to Or good evening. Or good evening actually, exactly. You're already hearing the voice of the guest of today, which is Bogdan Grigore. Ciao Bogdan. Ciao, ciao, ciao Stefano. Welcome to Facilitabile podcast.

00:22 We usually do the podcasting in Italian, but with special person like you we deserve to make an episode in English, to give the chance and the opportunity to make your voice listen it out there, because I was very impressed, let's say, from our meeting in in Bucharest last November, and it was amazing at the MA meeting I have International Association of Facilitator European Middle East Conference that was was organized by you, and I've been in in in the assembly actually facilitated So by you.

01:00 So, I said, we need to talk about it. And we need also to talk about your story because I think it's quite interesting for the audience. And in facilitabile, we do not start with the official things like Bodgan Grigore, the playful facilitator, chapter leader of IAF Romania, emotional culture special. I mean, there is a LinkedIn for that or your curriculum online.

01:24 So, let's start with something that you teach us which is What's the universe throw to your hands? So please raise your hands. And tell me what what's the universe is throwing to your hands right now? What is a universe throwing? It's a surprise because I think it's the first interview podcast where I don't know what is going to happen. But I'm really happy and looking forward towards it.

01:54 So I'm I'm open to what is going to to happen and discuss between us. Wow. Oh, cool. And and I just copy one of your exercise that you made in the in the assembly and I was fascinating about it and I said we need to to start differently. Also, since in our podcast we make culture and you are from Romania, if Bogdan would be a dish, which dish typical dish of Romania could be?

02:23 Like to describe yourself starting from a typical dish. I don't know, maybe we we We have something which is similar to the French ratatouille we call give it. So it's it's like a mixture of different vegetables.

02:41 So I think this is me because I'm I'm a mixture of of different approaches and I I like always to to mix it in a different way maybe. Wow, cool. And for those who are listening since these minutes we are not a kitchen or cooking show podcast. But we are just facilitating Not yet, exactly. But we are just facilitating in a in a strange way, let's say.

03:10 So but again, let's start officially with the first question, like where facilitation stepped in your life? Because I'm also always intrigued about the story behind each facilitator since there is no a curriculum path for facilitation. Like where you would you mind to share like your story behind?

03:30 So I think it came into my life before I knew that I was I knew about the field and I was I think I was somewhere in the high school and I was I was part of NGO that was organizing some local elections for children. So like we have local mayor adults we wanted to have to teach children about the Democracy.

04:01 And so we organized some local elections in some schools in the district that I lived in. So after Like a youth council, like Yes, something like that. Something like that. And because I organized it well in in the school I was in, then I was asked to help by let's say teaching others uh the process and to help them organize it in another district.

04:31 Okay.

04:31 So, even then, even if then maybe it was more like a training, I think there were small things from the facilitator side that I got in touch with, that means with group dynamics, that means maybe making people feeling comfortable, making them hear their voice, so they feel empowered and encouraged and with confidence in order for them to Well, to go further and apply the methodology.

05:06 So that was the part.

05:07 I can testimony let's say years forward I I hear you again that you said that we are organizing it but we were a whole team and I'm really grateful and we couldn't do it without without my colleagues from from IF Romania and also from the help that from we got from IF ME regional level and also from IF Global.

05:42 So We, I, I really like in that we are a community that it's supporting and helping. But of course the the most heaviness was done by, was took by my colleagues from the chapter so. I I have a dedicate question for that but let's keep it late for later. So back to your to your story.

06:06 I would say there is a common question that Miriam Hadani is a famous facilitator about um, podcasting and, you know, workshop works actually is, I think is, the podcast. There is a fascinating question which says, when you start to call yourself facilitators, like, do you remember?

06:27 I think, it was, so, I graduated in psychology, and after that I becoming working as a trainer. And at certain point, I discovered the field of applied improvisation in business.

06:43 And when I started to use this approach, I realized that that was not the classical training, because I wasn't teaching people stuff and content, but I was giving them some experiences and out of those experiences we in the brief we took some some learnings, but the learnings were given by the participants.

07:08 So then I realized that in that moment that That's that's when I discovered that maybe this is not training and I discovered the field of facilitation and we are realized that this supplied improvisation it's okay an approach or a method but it's not the only one it doesn't have the answers to all the the problems of teams and organization in the world and I started looking around and learning other stuff but I kept my my main approach with the light improvisation so that's why I'm calling myself a playful facilitator because I I use a lot of this playful activities.

07:48 Yeah. I think you experimented it in the conference part of them. Yes. And I was fascinating fascinating again because at some point you also explained why you the basis of those exercise like for example mirroring which makes the the assembly feels like you know or linked. So it's it's very interesting. Can you tell us more about improvisation because I'm intrigued. It's It's kind of an oxymoron.

08:17 So, two opposite words, improvisation and business. You know? I don't know. If I think a business, I think graphics, you know, business plan, something very, you know, strict and fixed. And when I think about improvisation, it's more like surfing the waves and maybe fancy stuff, you know, like catching the butterflies. How you can you mix it and what do you mean for you?

08:44 You know, when people heard about this field applied improvisation business, usually they connected with okay, maybe you can help me with some team bounding activities, maybe you can help me with some developing the skills of public skills of some of the leaders or sales people to to make them be more spontaneous or charismatic.

09:08 So these are the first things that people might might might connect with cu el, dar este mult mai decât acesta, deoarece, eu cred că este un abordaj care permite participanților să explore, poate sunt comportamente care nu ar avea explorat dacă ei au fost gone through un clasic abordaj, le-ați spus. Și eu vă dau un exemplu.

09:33 Let's say you want to to practice patients. And that group maybe doesn't doesn't feel comfortable with with doing that. But but when you are proposing to them a role play which is outside their normal reality. We are on a ship of pirates.

09:59 That allows them to lower their defense systems and allows allow participants on one hand to play and have fun, but on the other hand to Try that behaviour or that competency that you need that you had in mind for that session for that activity. And after that you can close it and said okay, you use it here in this activity and we laughed and it was fun.

10:28 How can you use it in your daily activity in your business life? And then I think here it's one of the the things because in this type of activities you can not you can um I wouldn't say train you can you can say train like like going to into the gym. Some competencies that you cannot train in in in the normal or usual type of uh, sessions.

10:56 So, you can go on this side or you can go on um on the metaphor side. So, we did sessions starting from values of the company. So, these values are quite abstract and then okay, they go in in some behaviors or some things, but uh, usually they they are not that easy to grasp. But when you put it in a playful uh, way, then you can grasp it, you can try it, uh, you can experiment with it and then you can apply it, okay.

11:26 How this apply to to our to our approach or to our environment, to our team, to our culture? Yeah. Many questions are popping up in my mind. The The first The first of all is um do you feel ridiculous while um you know proposing uh some activities to the group? Because uh if I think to myself and my experience, Mhm.

11:50 it's a bit awkward maybe for my experience actually. to there is always you know the the first barrier to break with the group because sometimes you you go in the room and you start you know asking for strange things like let's see what's the universe is throwing in your hands you know and people are looking like what maybe we are in the wrong room no how do you personally as a facilitator do you have tip and tricks to overcome this I don't know what you say in English but you know it's the strange feelings of being I would I would say two two things pop into my mind at this moment.

12:31 One, it's you have to feel comfortable yourself. So that means before you know doing this with others, you should have tried it yourself as a participant in a way of because if you don't feel comfortable in in making fun of yourself and making people laugh of that, then this is going to show and you're you're not going to be credible. So people won't trust coming with you into the process.

13:00 This is one thing. Um, and the second is how do you take people how do you make them feel psychological safety and how do you take them outside their comfort zone slowly?

13:15 Because one of the things that clients say to me when I say when I ask them why did you go to I don't know what big actor that it's more charismatic and and that could have done some activities like this.

13:32 Some questions that some answers that I get is something that we wanted to go outside of comfort zone to risk with somebody that can hold the space and can can make sense of what is happening. That is not only challenging us.

13:49 So it's very important not only to have experience in in that field in I mean in in the applied improvisation field or in theater or things like that, but also in in group dynamics and in in facilitation. So, I think that that makes the difference, you know? Very cool. You touch two points that are very crucial, I think, in the in the experience. One, it's also psychological safety.

14:16 So, uh I keep in mind the learning part, you know, start slowly and then go goes deeper and also sense making, which is a I think is the the best outcome that you can give to a client like making sense out of the funny the fun and then the the strange activities maybe that And also yeah and another thing that I realize now it's very important how you frame it.

14:43 So how do you prepare what's the message that you're sending before the workshop? What's the message that you're sending at the beginning? What's the message that the their manager or The person that is in charge of that group is sending. What's the message? It's it's the room that you're in sending. What's the message? You know, how the the the place is being arranged.

15:06 Um, how it's you know all those things are sending some message and are preparing people more unconsciously than consciously to what is going to happen. Okay. And then the kind of clarify the expectation, no?

15:22 Yes, and then putting putting the elephant, you know pe unde te alegi I'm going to take you slowly comfort zone hopefully we won't go to into your panic zone So, if we get there, you know, and things like that. And you know, people are laughing and slowly and I I also calibrate myself.

15:47 So, even if I have a design, I always after each activity or I I I look at at the reactions of the the participants and then I I calibrate and I say, "Okay, this just was maybe too much." Or they can handle more, so I can I can go into different depths and I can choose different different things. Yeah. Like I did as you as you remember if maybe you remember in the conference at one point I said I'm going to do another activity that I planned. Hm, yeah.

16:17 I don't know if you if you Yes, yes, yes. And uh maybe some parties some facilitators wouldn't say that. But I think Yeah. possible in in saying and doing that because I think participants appreciate when you adapt to what is happening to themselves and to the environment or to something that happened. So they He would won't see this as a weakness of yours. They would see that as a as a strength. Okay, he he can adapt to to us.

16:46 He does something that he maybe It's right to do it now. Yeah. Great. I know, I think it's also important to show to to show this because it's part of the process. I think with improvisation you don't you cannot I mean you can forecast something but you don't have the clear outcomes yet. I mean from activity to activity. You have, be able to, you know, to to surf. I think it's uh, it's what you said. So, yeah.

17:15 Really appreciated that you put it into into into into the table. And I was thinking to something else because um, okay, we we talked about how to um use improvisation with the groups actually. But how hard is to sell it? Like, how do you, because you said that at the beginning with the clients uh, they always is related to maybe team building or something more fancy instead of something really serious which is which is what she's about.

17:45 So, do you have any strategy or you don't know tricks to sell it? You know what's fun funny I think at this moment in in my country in Romania I think it's more difficult to sell facilitation than improvisation.

18:01 Because the field of improvisation it's more how to say So I will give you just a small funny example. So I I bought the the domain improvisatie.raw like improvisation.raw in 2008. So it was free back then.

18:28 So in that moment I realize it's free because on one hand people didn't hear about the field. But on the other hand, the companies and the corporate world needed um education in order to hear about it. So we took several years to do that.

18:53 And I think five years ago I find facilitation.ro free. Wow. So in 2020, 12 years or 2021 something like that. So 12 or 13 years later And the same thing pop into my mind. Why it's free? It's free on the other one head because people didn't hear about it, but it's free because if people didn't hear about it, that means it needs more awareness.

19:21 So in that moment, I realize I don't want to do this alone. So that was the moment that we formed the local chapter I am Romania and we realize that we need it in order to to to make this education and this awareness faster and much more efficient. We needed um a community. And we we done it in several years.

19:50 Much I more than I planned a question about it because actually I do not have you know the the menu of questions. I just have curiosity and and go along with it. Um, you are a great community builder, let's say. This is what I see from the outside, but uh the the the event in November was amazing. You always said, I'm not the alone, I'm not alone, I did not organize only by myself, but with a group. And I think you are a great community builder.

20:17 Also how people from your team appreciated you at the end of the or supported you also at the end of the the event. So, what's the secret to build the community? Because I'm also in your same position but in another country, Italy.

20:36 And I'm tragling, let's say, in in doing this, because people that does not have the time to meet online, or there is always something different to do, or they do not see the um, advantage of, uh, being a member of IAF, uh, or, you know, there are several communities, not only IAF is, uh, making, uh, you know, um, followers, let's say. So, how do you build the community?

21:05 How you started and how you keep the spirits on? Because, uh, it's, it's, I think, you said it's years that we are working on this. Mhm. So, I think, it's not, uh, I don't know, I don't have the You don't have the answer, yeah. Yes. And and it's a combination because I didn't build it alone. So we build it together and I think I think it's it's a combination between the culture that you have in the community. So to to have a culture that people want to belong.

21:34 And I always like the the IF chapter and IF in general that they didn't strive you know and push for membership. And this happened as well Well, in our, in our local chapter, when somebody wanted to join, wanted to join because they they like the people that are already in.

22:00 This is the the main reason and the second maybe it was okay, I want to grow, I want to develop my facilitation skills, I want to um to um to share maybe things to contribute. Okay. Um so this is one thing and how do you build that? It's We can do, I think, a podcast only on that. And it's a process in in time because culture doesn't build like like that.

22:31 Second, I think it would be, I think, you you you notice we we try to put um a lot of value in the membership and not only in the membership but being involved in. Yeah. So, if you and I can give you some some examples.

22:50 Dacă eu am găsit în voi eu am eu am grup mentoring for free for the Romanian community în facilitare and you can be a mentor. That on one hand okay puts you in a position of responsibility but also gives you credibility.

23:11 Your mentor in facilitation for a group of another thing we very easy thing that we do we we have a meetup, which is monthly or once every two months and this meetup has four steps and only facilitators from from many can facilitate in these steps. So you want to facilitate you have to be member.

23:41 We record all the events that we do online. Only our members can see the recording. Okay, you can join for free and you can see but if you have that time. But if you don't, you can. You have to be a member. Yeah. Uh, another there is there is a lot but I will give you maybe one more example. Yeah. Connected with the meetup that has a theme, so for December we have celebration. We also make a guide.

24:05 Uh, you received um at the conference some some cards with some Ah, yes. They are They They've been hot in LinkedIn. A lot of interest in in LinkedIn from people outside and yeah, you were quite mysterious on the next the steps for the cards because I think people ask for putting a platform or something like that so where to buy actually.

24:31 So that that cards there are it's summaries of activities from six different guys that we launch during the year for our community. And these guys were with different topics so you if you look at the cards there is storytelling, there is emotion, there different um and um the different topics, but I wanted to tell you how we do this guide.

24:59 So, for celebration, the last we our colleague that organized this asked for facilitated from Romania that want to share what one activity that they are using connected with that field in that case for celebration. And you put it in a template, but that when the the guide goes to our newsletter and goes online.

25:26 You there you have I don't know which activity which has been recommended by. So on one thing one thing okay you are contributing with something but on the other side that activity says something about you about your way of facilitating about how you do things and there is So link to your LinkedIn.

25:51 So if somebody reads and they like the activity but they don't feel comfortable in facilitating it, there is a lot of chance that maybe they will come to you and ask you for that. So that is give you also So, awareness and maybe in the future some business.

26:06 So, when people see this opportunities of, you know, being rewarded for your contribution or for your involvement, then this, you know, happens naturally. Yeah, let let's say that like extremely summarized great value. So, you have to create value for the community and and the rest will come.

26:35 the best outcome that I'm getting from also my experience actually. So my homework agenda I will write create value for the community. Not alone actually but trying to involving also people because this is something also that And the third thing that besides creating value it's the organizing and here I have two colleagues which are much better than on this.

27:05 It's my my two other colleagues from the board. It's Bulent and Alina, which have very good skills in in in this organizing. And without this, you cannot scale. We can you cannot grow. You cannot make structures that encourages people to to get involved and to give value. Cool. So, we talked about IAF. We talked about improvisation.

27:31 I'm um Hm, curious also about one word and one sentence that there is on on your LinkedIn description, which is emotional cultural specialist. What does it mean? Like because I'm I think I have an idea but I want to to discover from you like emotional. What what does it mean? It's related to the emotion or it's more like the way how you facilitate?

27:56 No, no, no, it's it's it's connected with the with the culture of an organization of a of a team, but also the way you're feeling. So, it can't be applied at a personal level. Um, uh, but as well it can be applied at a team, department or organizational level. So, this is a field.

28:16 Um, so, if you think about culture, usually we think about um, mission, vision, values that go uh, then with competencies, with strategic plans, and things like that. Yeah. Uh, and Usually, this is called the rational part of the culture. But there is also the emotional part which is the sum of how people are feeling in the organization.

28:46 And there is a lot of research being done that demonstrate that the way people are feeling in their teams and in their organizations correlates directly with how people are giving results.

29:03 Um, what is their satisfaction, motivation, engagement, how loyal they are, how if they get or not to the burnout, what's the experience that they offer to the clients. And these are some metrics which are very important for an organization or for a business.

29:26 So, and usually they are how to say approach very superficially. So, there is a field that tries to approach this in a more organized and facilitated way. And there are several there is a program that that you can do with your leaders or with your team in order for them to to realize what they they need to feel in order for them to be successful in what they do.

29:56 But as well what they don't want to feel but they might feel from time to time. So, it's also about negative emotion but also about negative emotions because we sometimes feel frustrated, stressed, overwhelmed, blocked and things like that. And we need to see how do we approach it.

30:13 And what I like about this approach is that it's this is not a how to say emotional intelligence training course where you learn about okay what this mean emotion how do you can you control this how it's more about um I need to feel creative, free and appreciated. This is for me important, but let's see what we want as a team.

30:41 And after that let's see, okay, we want these five emotions to feel and we don't want these five emotions. Okay. How much clarity on what we want to create actually, not only in the in terms of activities And it's making them feel responsible about that because usually this emotional thing it's being okay the HR has to do something. The manager has to do something. The mother the mother God has to do something.

31:10 The CEO, you know, people don't take responsibility about what they're feeling and after uh, these types of, uh, workshops which are facilitated, people realize it's in themselves to what is happening, uh, in their team. Because I, I believe that, okay, uh, um, there, I believe in, um, the fact that there are microcultures at, uh, team level, Okay.

31:37 which, um, influence a lot, um, the outcomes of, and the objective of that team. So, So, even if the organization wants to have, I don't know what kind of values or what kind of behaviors and what kind of approaches, each team has some micro cultures which is influenced by the members of the team and by the manager of the team. Yeah. Cool.

32:05 I think you touched a sensitive point for the facilitators. I mean, when you work in a organization, when you work in in business, and you want to facilitate business, I think you have to be aware of this emoțional level, și microcosmos că live în team. Thanks for touching this point and I'm sure that all the facilitators who are listening will will research on Google later. How to to study about that.

32:33 Bogdan, I will be here forever with you, but I think we our conversation has to to end at some point. And to do it I will also use a facilitation technique. Um, so three questions. Head, heart, hands. So, the head is uh your rational. So, uh if you Food for Tots, let's say, where do you stay updated?

33:01 How do you um, you know, feed your curiosity? Uh, how do you learn a new facilitation activities or I mean, I don't know, your resources actually. Mhm. So, um I like um We are encouraging a lot in our chapter the co-creating and co-facilitating. So I'm learning a lot by co-creating with somebody else and I'm trying to do that as much as I can as well in my in my work when I when I can in my project.

33:30 But on the other hand I'm doing the same in my mind with the things that are I'm passionate about. So one thing that I'm working now and you will see maybe in the in the future some some materials on that is what's the connection So now I'm trying to see okay what can we learn from history that can be applied in facilitation.

33:56 So I'm trying to find you know things that Yes I'm passionate about and how this and this is inspiring me. So I'm not getting to things or to fields by oh this is something that it has not been approached. I need to go there. You know it's a blue ocean. No it's it's It's more about what align with me, what interests me and how can I I learn or how can I apply what what can I get from this?

34:26 Cool. Then we have heart heart so let's say how do you see the future of facilitation like by heart you know what's your feeling your sensation where are we going? I think in în acest domeniu de mai mult robot și AI, cred că facilitarea îți dă oameni împreună și îți dă voce.

34:55 Eu cred că o lot de oameni găsesc nu sunt certați în vocea și îmi cer de voce de AI. So I think it's getting to be more important to to have facilitators that can make make people feel comfortable and feel that they can't contribute in a world that it's more and more automated and based on artificial intelligence.

35:25 Cool, thank you. And the last last question is hands. So do you mind to share like an exercise or an improvisation ice breakers or whatever it is so that we can make with our hands next workshop?

35:41 With our hands uh so Oh no even I mean uh uh, also not with dance in general, like an improvisation ice breaker, easy to explain, like let's Okay, say I think I think we uh we did the worst yoga teacher in the world, maybe in the um in the conference, and I think Yes.

35:59 this is easy to explain So, um, I like this because this is a mirroring activity, but the uh the challenges are coming from the participants, and it's easier for participants to accept some challenge if they're coming from some of them, if So it's something like this. I come up with an example.

36:21 We are going to become the worst teacher in the world and we are going to propose și că este conectat cu ceva subiect. Ok. It can be you know subiect conectat cu business or it can be something that is not connected. It's only only to have fun. And I think we we try to connect it in the conference with the facilitation.

36:48 So maybe now I'm explaining because I think this is going to be an audio format. So I'm putting my my hands on the on my eyes and I'm saying okay this is the pose that it's transmitting people that are in the room but they don't want to be there. They want to be somewhere else. And you have to copy this in order to try to feel the same. Okay.

37:17 When when participants are doing that they are going into a mirroring activity. And after that okay because we we we aligned with our college Let's see what other proposal we have connected with our with our topic. Who wants to propose another Who wants to try to to be the next worst yoga teacher in the world proposing And And it was immediately like in at least in the conference it was there was an immediate reaction.

37:45 So it's an exercise that also I think put the participants in a spot. And I'm also thinking of of activities which involve everybody because It's very important. In the conference we have a lot of people, 150, 80, I don't know how many were there. And you you need activities that are involving everybody. Okay, not everybody had the voice, but we had other activities when everybody had the voice. But in the workshop maybe you will have less participants.

38:14 So maybe you can have time for everybody to propose something so they feel their voice being heard. And this is good as an ice breaker because if everybody had a voice and everybody followed Mhm. proposal that how to say there is a there is a word for that but I don't English is not my my main language.

38:39 So if everybody follows then it's going to make it easier for you as a facilitator in the workshop to follow the same types of behaviors because they connect actually. Yeah and also I think one advantage is that like people had Avea deja voice about something which is easy like making a move, not only give your opinion about the business actually.

39:06 And also I think it's great to make exercise like this because it's really breaking the eyes in at low level easy and people just can follow you and build trust. So well, thank you. Thank you Bogdan because it's been great to chat with you to learn from you. actually, I I want to underline this because it's uh there there are uh there have been several learning points and thanks.

39:36 People which are curious about you will find um the link in the episode description. They can Google Bogdan Grigore on LinkedIn. Everything is out there so easy to reach. Thank you for being with us. for your invitation and for your questions. I really enjoyed it. See you next time then. Ciao. Ciao.